Technical questions on use fast CaEDTA
(2003) Dear Dr Gordon
I have been to your seminar in Sept 03. Loved it. I have changed most of my chelation patients over to the fast Ca EDTA chelation. I monitor the lead levels every 6 months as a guide on how long they will need the IV therapy. Most of them come 1x/mo for IV chelation and use your BC formula bid at home.
I have some clinical questions for you.
1) Does the Ca-EDTA take out calcium as effectively as the regular Na-EDTA? I have a patient with ca kidney stones who has a concern about that.
2) How frequent/often can I safely give the Ca EDTA chelation? This is for patients that do not live here and want to get max treatment in a short period of time. I used to give these patients 2x/week to 3x/week Na EDTA IV as per ACAM protocol. This also would be a concern for patients with significant disease (CAD/ St p recent MI/ CVA patients) where timely intervention is of essence.
3) I am following Dr Sheldon’s mixture for the Ca-EDTA infusion and usually infuse over 30 min without any problems. I do see increased bp post infusion. Can I use 1/2NS or sterile water instead of the NS?
I would love to pick your brain on a lot of other things but I know you are a busy man. Thank you for everything you are doing to advance healing and help us become better healers.
Dear Doctor:
Thank you for the kind comments. In response to some of your technical concerns, please check past messages in this yahoo discussion group for an important reference suggesting a scientific reason that giving calcium EDTA could be THE best form of EDTA to deal with pathologic calcification, almost like we fight fire with fire. Calcium is an important cellular signaling messenger and when we give it fairly rapidly the HIGHER level than normal of SERUM calcium induces many changes, one of which is a signal to let INTRACELLULAR levels of calcium go DOWN. Although this seems counter intuitive, we have respected chelation physicians, who have used the Sodium EDTA treatment for years, now routinely reporting that their results are clearly far better and more rapidly achieved. For example, Oliver Günter getting written up in his local newspaper for seeing his patient’s gangrene reverse in only 1 week!
In some cases, as in gangrene, it seems calcium works better than sodium yet in kidney stones this is a different matter and I am not convinced yet which is best so I might ALTERNATE therapies the short and, for that matter, the old slow have been given every 8 hours for up to 5 treatments and can safely be used DAILY when the benefits exceeds the risk. There will always be the 1 in 500 to 1 in 4000 chance that someone does not tolerate EDTA of either type well so if giving frequently check Urinanalysis often and BUN prn.
I have had patients on ONLY the Beyond Chelation Formula report to me that in 3 months they had seen a 30-50% decrease in their calcium score on their cat scans. Yet I still pride myself on helping the chelation doctors who in desperation, after giving 20, 30 and 50 of the old Sodium EDTA following the standard ACAM protocol, have seen the calcium score double or worse during their standard chelation therapy. I have yet to hear of this happening to anyone doing the new rapidly administered treatment in conjunction with the BID dosage of Beyond Chelation. Now with the addition of things like Vitamin K-2 and Resveratrol and more Selenium and Vitamin D to the new enhanced BEYOND CHELATION -IMPROVED, I expect to have far fewer occasions of proven worsening of coronary calcium scores.
When I have had to turn the most difficult cases around, I used the trick of lowering total body burden of pathogens, not wasting money on which infection was present, but relying on widely published PROOF that everyone has many infections in their vascular system at ALL TIMES. Also I do not chase nanobacteria at the expense of ignoring the PROVEN incidence of Chlamydia and CMV of over 80% in EVERY cardiovascular patient.
Regarding the rapidity of repeated dosages of Ca EDTA, I was trained early on by Carlos Lamar MD, the originator of much of our work in chelation. He used to drip patients CONTINUOUSLY from Friday PM until Monday AM. Since we have Dr Becquet and Dr John Baron as living proof that IF you could have the 2000-3000 IV chelations that they have taken, that YOU too would be fully active in YOUR nineties and looking 20+ years younger than your chronological age. Thus, do NOT fear giving daily treatments to folks where time is of the essence for them, but get creative. Let’s do ONE of the Ca EDTA featuring Myers-like addition of nutrients and ONE featuring MEGA doses of IV Vitamin C and if your knowledge and experience warrants it, one could feature even a more aggressive form of oxidative therapy with Ozone or H202 or Ultraviolet blood irradiation, depending ON YOUR KNOWLEDGE and your state regs etc.
The point is that IV therapies can and should be built around the Calcium EDTA therapy and sometimes incorporated with it. Some now do the OLD chelation protocol with the ONLY change being they substitute CALCIUM EDTA for the Disodium EDTA and this means it is now painless. This means the OLD formula can be infused in 30 minutes, which produces the higher blood levels of EDTA that we by now should all know means FAR GREATER lead removal. Since the PUSH in 5 minutes AVERAGES 147 TIMES greater LEAD excretion than we have as baseline, and since no one sees that much lead coming out with the slow, too low concentration treatment given over 3 hours (UNLESS IT IS SERIOUS LEAD TOXICITY), then we know we are providing greater benefit if we think our primary role is DETOXIFICATION.
Since we have changed the name of ABCT from the American Board of Chelation to the Board of CLINICAL METAL TOXICOLOGY, I hope that more and more chelating physicians will incorporate this thought process into their chelation practices. Removal of lead from KIDNEYS seems to preserve renal function (Jan 2003, NEJM) and lower LEAD levels seem to be associated with HIGHER IQ and thus greater lifetime worker productivity (NEJM, April 2003). Thus it should be clear that removal of lead from ENDOTHELIUM would help to improve ITS function, which must include Nitric Oxide production (and prostacyclin and heparin production to lower resistance to flow of blood).
But we still need to deal with the total body burden of pathogens and thus I hope you at least consider the protocol on my website for CHRONIC INFECTIONS and incorporate oral and high dose vitamin C in ANY treatment program that you offer.
I just had lunch with a highly organized Doctor in Laguna that informed me that HIS metal detoxification practice is BASED on high dose Vitamin C and that he has lots of documentation that every one of his patients’ provocative urine tests PROVE that this, along with my oral products, WILL HANDLE MERCURY, LEAD AND CADMIUM. So, please think about getting the most bang for the patient’s time and money and add high dose Vitamin C to some of the IV’s that you do for patients.
Whether or not to use NORMAL SALINE OR 1/2 normal Saline or water for injection requires you to get the osmolality calculated in making that decision and your supplier of IV materials will give you the information needed for that calculation. However, for just administering IV calcium EDTA any of those three choices will work, as there is a lot of osmolality to CA EDTA. Thus water for injection will not make you hyposmolal if you give just equal parts, say 2 GM IV is 6.66 cc and give about 6.66 cc of water for injection. However, I want feedback, try these choices on yourself and see; maybe the Normal Saline version is even MORE comfortable as that also is part of the process we go through in selecting these materials to give to our patients.
The 1/2 N/s requires doing your calculations of osmolality but certainly should be fine if you look into the numbers depending on what you are giving. I like the idea of kicking ideas around for 15 minutes at NO charge to you MEMBERS on a as needed basis so I get your feedback and you hear things that are too new for me to write about. Schedule with my assistant, Nancy at 1-928-472-4263.
Sincerely,
Garry F. Gordon, MD,DO,MD(H)
Have ordered most of your stuff and have batch Ca Edta for IVs. Am also in process of getting certified for NIH chelation project. Am still in flux as to how to proceed. Why are some so vehement against the Ca Edta push. I can tell you after doing about 10 : Three said it burned and one, my daughter, got a real wopper of a phlebitis. Called the Pharmacist and found that it’s osmolarity is over 2000 mOml/L, meaning of course it needs to be diluted with about 5 parts sterile water to get it near normal osmolarity. Having done only 3-4 more with that dilution, no burning or thrombophlebitis. If pushed over say 5 min, should you get just as good a result as with the non diluted? I’m told that the biochem is different for the Ca and Disod EDTA. True? If so how and does it make a difference. Is chelating strength of the two any difference. Haley talks of strength in 10 to the X power etc. Is there any chart that gives relative strength of different chelator and ratios they get out vial stool and urine?
I use Wellness GTH, supposedly more resistent to oxidation prior to giving. True or False? Some say not to give GTH with Vit C as Vit C acts as both Oxid and Red agent and so could oxidize GTH??
Some tell me that GTH is good chelator of Hg, others say no. I do know that with myself I got 4x amount of Hg out GI wise with only IV vit C and GTH (50 and 1.2gm). Know that Vit C is weak Hg chelator but doubt that it alone could increase Hg dump per stool that much. Should any come out that way in urine? Even if GTH and vit C, your oral chelation to obviate resorbtion makes perfect sense.
One pnt I gave Phosphatidly Choline 5ml, GTH 1.2gm, 3gm CaEDTA diluted 1:1 with sterile water push followed by Vit C 50gm in 750cc sterile water over an hour. Did not do urine nor a control but stool showed a wopping 11mg Hg/L dry stool. Thought I was on to something so did same on another pnt. Got urine back first, it showed an elevated Hg in urine, about 10. Thought, "Her Hg load must be really high and the Ca EDTA brought some of it out." Then thought ,"Bet I’ll have a much bigger dump in stool." To my surprise, and chagrin, none showed up in stool.
As you can see, I’m wrestling with this whole process.
Thanks for any input.
Dear Doctor:
WE MUST DILUTE, and yes the results are spectacular even if taken over 15 minutes and combined with a MYERS or whatever. Please see the protocols on my website and research the archives of this discussion group for more information this.
Some of the resistance is fear of change and some fear that everyone will want this at $50 vs. the older method but those fail to see that the month supply of BC-I will make up the other $50 with less time and energy on their part. Also MORE benefit to the patients as now they have continuous protection against MI and strokes with provably LOWERED BLOOD VISCOSITY to the point that those events do NOT happen.
The calcium you get is twice the concentration of the sodium. Some of the important differences are that no one you talk to ever got patients with hives or back pain well with 10 cc IV calcium. They do not understand calcium is a cellular signaling molecule and that giving a short increase in serum calcium levels can have MORE profound benefits than lowering serum calcium did, and even help intracellular calcium levels go down better than the increases in PTH were doing! If you want to learn more purchase tapes from INSTATAPE, 1-800-now-tape and listen to my presentation to ICIM with Gary Osborn. It was profound when he explained how much better EDTA is than DMPS for MERCURY.
I work with doctors who may convince you that in the interests of economics stick with the C and learn more about NAC (n acetyl Cysteine) orally and less with the glutathione, which is pricey but certainly will not hurt. But where I am looking is long-term, affordable, antioxidant and detoxifying. I do not know anything about some IV glutathione being more stable but sounds reasonable if they have data.
We all find that dumps are variable and at my April 17-18th conference we may give everyone some amazing insight about WHY. So keep on accumulating data and come to conferences and share.
We are all still learning but you are confirming what I hear many places. But all in all, let’s stick with facts. Patients need to lower total body burden of pathogens, metals, and organic chemicals in order to hope to restore health. Along the way lowering blood viscosity as we now have proof that Beyond Chelation is doing will make achieving these other goals easier.
Sincerely,
Garry F. Gordon, MD,DO,MD(H)
Related posts:
- More on Renal Studies and CaEDTA
- Blumer Study on CA-EDTA, Chelation Questions
- Vitamin Questions and Feedback
- IV CaEDTA and DMSA vs. DMPS
